Old age comes to them all
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I must admit to being very impressed with how recent threads have been playing out. Very intelligent conversation.
Okay, another probably mute point but I happen to remember Medusa appearing at least once (Series 2 I think) and being referred to as Medusa as well rather than just being a Gorgon.
So how would this be possible? Seeing as Medusa errrr.. lost her head, so to speak. With Pegasus being born from her severed neck!! This happened long before the period that KM is often thought to take place in.
So therefore the historical accuracy of Knightmare is under strong contention. It never claimed to be historically accurate.....therefore Lillith could be the same Lillith as Adam's first wife......or she could be a completely different one.....I guess the only answer could come from Tim Child himself.
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More importantly, why should she neccesarily be the same Lillith.
It is quite possible that an evil(ish) Sorceress was required, and Lillith seemed as good a name as any.
The actual Lillith could have been used as inspiration for the KM Lillith.
That doesn't mean it HAS to be the same Lillith.
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Not having read any of the books I cannot comment on this.
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Hmmm. Grippa and Rhark.
Difficult one. Not being versed in Goblin lore, I have no idea how long Goblins are generally thought to live to.
Although, if they're under Skarkill's control, I'd imagine they were quite young. No adult would take orders off Skarkill!!!
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Do you think that the goblins of series 3 and 4 were Grippa and Rhak or some other goblins.
I think that Grippa and Rhak were in series 3 and 4, they were young at the time and were cught either by Skarkill or by someon else who sold them to him.
This is no impossible since in Henryk Sienciewicz's Krysacy refers to bands of goblins living in the forests.
I also gather that goblins lived in communities and sent out raiding parties, ie. in the forest of Dun. They could be from the forests or the caverns as they were found in the caves at the end of level 2 in s3. Gundrada even called them Cavern scum.
Maybe there are two types, Cave goblins and Woodland goblins.
Regarding their age they could be immportal since they are related to elves or they could probably live a couple of hundred years, but thats a guess.
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The relationship to elves I have heard before. Something about basically being fallen elves, something to do with Dark Magic so I suppose they could also be ageless (immortal implies that they cannot be killed)
As for being the same Goblins as in previous series. I would like to think not. I'd like to think that each time we saw Goblins they were different ones. Adds to the idea of there being a whole race of them in the Dungeon, rather than just the two!
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immortal
\Im*mor"tal, n. One who will never cease to be; one exempt from death, decay, or annihilation. --Bunyan
i.e. Not even a sword blow can kill.
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For the simple reason that they are not immortal, merely ageless, same as Tolkeins elves. Ageless but still able to be killed.
Therefore not immortal.
It's like the age old argument about whether God is omnipotent. Most followers of a faith would claim yes. So simple. Ask God to make someone more powerful than himself. If he does it then he is no longer the most powerful being and therefore no longer omnipotent.
If he can't do it, then there is something he cannot do, there for he is not omnipotent.
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The oldest member of the Dungeon is Lillith becaues she was Adam's first wife in the guarden of Ede. She was thrown out for not showing respect to Adam and to God. She lived in a cave by the Red Sea and learn't the Black arts and became the world's first vamapire.
I might be a bit rusty on this, but I believe that it actually went along the lines of God creating Adam as both man and woman, joined at the back, then split them into two, Adam and Lillith. And Lillith didn't show respect for Adam by refusing to adopt the missionary position when doing the nasty, therefore was a bad wife and got exiled from Eden. And then went on to breed with devils, and was the mother of demons, not something as mundane as a vampire. Adam had a second wife before Eve too y'know, but that's another story...
Oh, and Cain = vampire is (as far as I know) something invented by White Wolf for Vampire: The Angsting Masquerade, I've not come across that one in mythology. (byt Hebrew myth ain't my speciality)
As far as Knightmare Lillith = Biblical Lillith goes, I'm not too sure. Yeah, the books indicate that she is, but the books also indicate that Velda is NOT a knife-wielding psychopath, so they might not be accurate. Besides, if Lillith WAS her biblical counterpart, I'm sure she'd be doing more important things than making causeways... laying teh smack down on Mogdred for a start since she WAY outranks him.
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I'm positive that somewhere Cain has been mentioned as being the first Vampire. It's something to do with him being the first to draw human blood....
As for Vampire : The Masquerade. Never heard of it. What is it?
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You could be right, like I said, this isn't my area of expertise. (now if it was GREEK mythology on the other hand...)
Vampire: The Eternal Moan Masquerade is a fairly popular RPG produced by White Wolf, in which Cain is the father of vampires, and constantly mentioned. (whenever they're not drowning in angst)
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I'll take it that I'm right on that one then Even though I'm probably wrong
Sounds....errr....depressing. Typical Vampire thing about whinging that they are Vampires and brooding about wanting to be human again???
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As I said on page 1 of this thread, Tim Child has made it clear that the books are not definitive, so any evidence you take from them has to be taken with a pinch of salt. Especially remember that they were not wrtten by TC, but by Dave Morris who never worked on the series itself at all and therefore only really had his own ideas about how the KM universe should be developed.
And as Jen points out above, there are numerous little inconsistencies in the details between the books and the series.
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