Those that were denied...
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You might find it more convenient to have a look via YouTube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3VJR0vAbt-E, 4:25 onwards.
"Once you have the supplies, you will be able to bribe your way through to the Gate-Tower."
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On series 3 I watched Leo and Martins quests again - they both lost so cruelly although I actually knew Martins riddle dead easy I knew the answer as a kid too STAG alonge gave it away it was a species of Beetle. Shame they did not realise it, they totally deserved to win.
It was cruel of the producers to let em go so far on after to kill them in the penultimate room.
I DO THINK Leos team were robbed through that was a ghastly riddle. Such a shame and if Only Martin knew BEETLE they would have changed history, Shot Morghanna in the eye with a pin and gone on and won the quest.
I looked at s5 youtube clip I suppose they should have picked up the Hint BRIBE and realised gold = bribery Ariadne did not give them any time though but to just grab the horn out of sheer random ness when they had the hint to bribe I guess ... tough, lol. but never mind it made for a good death. LOVELLLY
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I DO THINK Leos team were robbed through that was a ghastly riddle. Such a shame and if Only Martin knew BEETLE they would have changed history
A Series 3 quest was increasingly merciless in terms of correct answer requirements: on Level 1, a single truth was enough to pass; on Level 2, "2 out of 2 or it just won't do"; on Level 3, 1 out of 1 or the quest was done. Add to that the difficulty of the Level 3 questions and it does seem like Leo and Martin met with unfairness, in my opinion.
I looked at s5 youtube clip I suppose they should have picked up the Hint BRIBE and realised gold = bribery Ariadne did not give them any time though but to just grab the horn out of sheer random ness when they had the hint to bribe I guess ... tough, lol.
Then again, a certain dungeoneer in the previous series had "got the horn" and successfully bribed his way past a guard with it - and gone on to win. But having said that, Level 2 of Series 5 was quite different from Level 1 of Series 4: 4 dungeoneers perished during the former, whereas during the latter, dungeoneers were seemingly invincible and couldn't choose a wrong clue object if they tried!
It seems that as soon as Richard's advisors saw the spyglass, they thought they could take a breather while they did some viewing. Had they kept their guard up and remembered the nature of where they were (they had all the Ariadne's Lair experiences of Series 4 to go on), they might have made the right choice of clue objects.
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To twist knightmaredave's topic and reverse the idea - how about the teams who you thought deserved to go further or win in the dungeon? Or even the teams who could have gotten further?
Spoilers below*
There are many who we feel were dealt a short straw I'm sure of that.
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Jamie Series 2. This team were bright enough - but in a super quick series with each chamber a dangerous one they were not fast enough. I 've chosen them because they answered six out of six riddles correctly - not to be ignored when they weren't all easy riddles either. And I wouldn't have said they were that slow either. They deserved to get to level 3 I feel. They definitely got a really hard level 2 seeing it again and then got into a tangle, literally.
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Giles Series 4. The entertainment value of this quest deserved a win alone, but to be cruelly denied victory due to time limit was a great shame. The team were not only good contestants but great sports, inquisitive minds and obviously in it for the experience. Giles and co proved you could get far in knightmare and not necessarily take it ultra seriously. And I really wanted to see that final showdown between Giles and Mogdred . Would have been epic.
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Sophia Series 6. If knightmare was just an obstacle course, then this team might just be my first choice to complete it successfully. Their navigation of causeways was sublime (although ironically they died on the great causeway) and Sophia was refreshingly feisty. This team -but for one question- most definitely deserved that crown.
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I definitely agree with no 2 and 3 above. Both woz robbed in my opinion.
Giles' team were one of the most intelligent teams who were fantastic to watch. All the way through you wanted them to win. If nothing else at least they got to take part in the end of season scene.
Sophia's team should have won, having got as far as they did. Plus they should have scored brownie points on being one of the few teams to 'play the game' and interact with the characters in the dungeon. Her back chat to Elita was spot on!
It is also the team which made me laugh the most a silly comments, when Pickle exclaims: "Elf boots!" Referring to his amazement of the ring that makes Sofia grow. So one of the team tell Sofia the ring has something to do with elf boots and Pickle gives her a very strange look!!
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My option goes to Series 6 Team 1 .
In Matt, they had one of the best ever dungeoneers to grace the dungeon, and his brilliant interactions with the characters was superb. The advisors were very impressive in their parts as well.
They actually did everything spot on up until their death on the Level 2 causeway, and that was only because it was deemed that Matt's left foot was just an inch too far off the path.
An unfair death that put an end to a thoroughly enjoyable quest. Had they actually crossed that causeway successfully, I'm sure Level 3 would have immediately followed, and maybe the team could have even gone on to win as well.
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i beliueve helen and co in s 4 team 1 should have won as modgred was very unfair to axe them like that. they chose the wrong spell but well they would't have known that BUTwas correct.
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Yeah Helen S4 is a tricky one. It was not an easy choice having to choose one of those two spells and either one could have been wrong. In The Eyeshield Jake Collins writes "could it have been more luck than judgement?" as Mogdred didn't have many victims to his name. This might have been the case or it might have been 'first team syndrome' whereby first teams are given a harder time than later teams to preserve the threat of the dungeon. Well, it's a theory anyway. If the first team won, an initial audience reaction might be - 'well that was easy!!' but the dungeon dynamics could have changed to make it harder for later teams - which you never know, might have happened in a series 9, falsifying my theory completely.
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I don't remember the series 2 team right now, but for the other two:
Giles' team should certainly have one. They seemed to have difficulty after difficulty thrown at them at the end in order to conveniently kill them off, but overcame them. They provided one of the few bits of entertainment in a dull series. Surely a bit of editing to the overall series would've enabled them to fit a win in?
Sophia's team were very entertaining, and deserve a massive cheer for answering back to Elita, but we've had other teams fail on a single Level 3 question, and although it was pretty harsh (and rare by then) that's the dungeon for you.
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This is one of those discussions that I guess people keep coming back to. Here's my thoughts:
Series 1 - tough to say, since most of the teams made "series 1 mistakes", that is to say mistakes that occurred through natural unfamiliarity with the format. Of course, James' fatal sidestep in series 3 comes under this category but by that point in the show was just sheer stupidity!
Series 2 - yes, Jamie was treated unfairly, no question. Especially compared to the hints that Neil got (does anyone else think that some of that team were dyslexic, and that's why they got the hints?).
Series 3 - Leo's riddle was a stinker, and Simon's amulet didn't have a "tracker facility" - even a little shadow on the floor would have helped. Scott's jump was indeed a good one, and it always threw me that they suddenly died. Cliff, there's arguments for and against there. Ross was unlucky too, that cliff path was tough to judge.
Series 4 - Alistair was unlucky getting the CoB like that, they were really on the ball for the whole of their quest (they didn't get a single riddle wrong). The backwards riddles that Vicky (or was it Nicky?) faced were confusing, that was very unfair, and Jeremy was a little hard done by too. Giles - absolutely was treated unfairly. Those long-winded spyglass sequences were the killer. They should have done what they did in series 1 and edit things a bit.
Series 5 - Sarah was hard done by, they were a very capable team, and they did eventually give Elita that gem. Alex's "slowness" on the causeway was a debatable issue, which I guess is why they put a visible clock there next season. Christopher needed three objects from one clue room to successfully complete level 2, so he was very unfairly treated indeed.
Series 6 - Matt's causeway death has always rankled with me, because it doesn't actually look like he put a foot wrong on it. And yes, Sofia didn't even get a chance to fail on the Great Causeway. Btw - Ben on that same causeway, the advisors used logic to work out the sequence.
Series 7 - Ben and the scattered spell was very unfair, considering the ease of the clues by this point in the series, the need to use that darkness powder or whatever it was, was not at all obvious. Usually, even in the first series, it's obvious what needs to be done, the question is do they have the means?
Series 8 - Daniel's CoB experience was indeed unfair. Also, Michael is another one that can be argued both ways.
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Not compiling my list as of yet, but the But death was a fair one in my view - That they should cast it was quite clearly indicated, albeit somewhat crypticly - Merlin told them it was a humble spell, followed by Mordread going on about them being humble before him or something like that.
Goodness knows what it would have done, however.
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Series 4 - Alistair was unlucky getting the CoB like that, they were really on the ball for the whole of their quest (they didn't get a single riddle wrong). The backwards riddles that Vicky (or was it Nicky?) faced were confusing, that was very unfair, and Jeremy was a little hard done by too. Giles - absolutely was treated unfairly. Those long-winded spyglass sequences were the killer. They should have done what they did in series 1 and edit things a bit.
Just noticed I made an error there - for spyglass, read eye-shield, as I'm sure you'd already figured out anyway.
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That's the first Knightmare episode that I have on video. They had quite a while to cast the spell, though I don't know what the result would have been if they'd decided to cast it earlier.
GG's #1: That's the one I meant.
I really renjoyed this quest ok series 4 was dubbed too easy and slow but the face off with good old M was very well played, just a shame thids season the ooh nasties were cancelled.
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When I watched it as a kid, the only one that struck me as unfair was along the lines of team gets object, later comes across situation where one of the female neutral charactera needs the object, the team asks what she will give them in return, the character says that they will give them nothing, team frees the character from her situation anyway. Team dies several rooms later due to the lack of a spell she would have given them and Tregard admonishes them for not driving a harder bargain. I may have missed some subtlety, as I was a kid at the time and I only had one chance to see it, but that one seemed unfair to me. Even if they'd just helped out without asking for anything, that would be what a dungeoneer should do, and I would consider the loss unfair. However, they did ask for a reward, were rebuffed and lost because they were not forceful enough. Anybody know which episode that was, so I could look at it again?
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When I watched it as a kid, the only one that struck me as unfair was along the lines of team gets object, later comes across situation where one of the female neutral charactera needs the object, the team asks what she will give them in return, the character says that they will give them nothing, team frees the character from her situation anyway. Team dies several rooms later due to the lack of a spell she would have given them and Tregard admonishes them for not driving a harder bargain. I may have missed some subtlety, as I was a kid at the time and I only had one chance to see it, but that one seemed unfair to me. Even if they'd just helped out without asking for anything, that would be what a dungeoneer should do, and I would consider the loss unfair. However, they did ask for a reward, were rebuffed and lost because they were not forceful enough. Anybody know which episode that was, so I could look at it again?
I think you mean Nathan and his team from series 8. The problem was the team didn't even ask for anything in return plus they were in level 3 so no excuses. I think it was a schoolboy error in my opinion and if Treguard jumped in at the time and advised the team to ask for something back in return, it would have been unfair. The team should have known from previous quests and series that you don't get something for nothing. I think the team got what they deserved in the end.
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I would disagree with that actually. After telling Nathan what he had to do, Maldame dismissed him and I don't think it was unwise of the team to follow this instruction. She'd already made it clear that she was not someone to be messed with.
Maybe they should have asked for something out of her, but under the circumstances I don't blame them too heavily for not doing so and I still think this was the best team of the series.
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I'm with Ross on this one. There was NO indication that the team needed to do anything differently (there would normally be some sort of prompt if they were meant to), and no clear opportunity for them to ask for a reward. And I'm not convinced they actually did mess up; it would be very easy for Treguard & Majida's conversation to have been filmed and inserted later as a false explanation for what went wrong. I don't believe they needed some special magic to get through the fireball room safely - their only mistake was apparently a careless sidestep.
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In other quests though you often see teams asking what would they get back in return if they had to give a item to someone or to give a warning. Nathan and his team failed to do this. The team shouldn't have needed an indication whether to ask Maldame something in return. They were helping out so should have thought to ask a favour in return.
As for Treguard and Majida's conversation, I find it hard to believe it would have been filmed and inserted as a false explanation. That wouldn't make sense to me. I thought it tied in with what happened.
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