Series 6 Ep 11
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I just want to query on something, apparently it seems they missed out on the rest of the combination for the last causeway but How or where were they meant to get the rest of the combination or were they meant to guess or work it out properly???? If they were meant to get the rest of the combination from somewhere, I can think of only 2 places
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When they go into Ariadne's Lair and get the first half of the combination, and then go back into the ship, I wonder if they should have asked to the captain what Will they give them for the object he wanted, prehaps he could have given them the information needed. Instead they let the captain virtually snatch the item from them and quickly take them into Level 3.
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From Hordiss in the first Level 3 Room, I think getting the spell was right but maybe they should have asked for more information in the form of the rest of the combination, Remember Hordiss was complety in their power so it was obvious he could have given the team anything?????
What a fantasic Team though, I was highly impressed, the way they guided Ben through the Dungeon,all their guiding through the dungeon was spot on, and the way they tackled the causeways was fantasic.
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the last causeways isn't as hard as the small timer ones. the paths are big enough just to say 'Step left and go forward' so directing them fair more easy.
Not even close to being as good as the season 5 causeway.
Unless they missed a scroll in the tunnels that gave away the rest of the answer.. i doubt it, i'm sure it was set up for them to have to work out, be kinda pointless just giving the team the correct answer for the last part of the game.
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Right, I have a theory.
The scroll says 2,3,?,?,?
the causeway looks as follows (well, kinda):
| 1 | 3 | 4 | 2 |
| 2 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 2 |
| 1 | 4 | 2 | 3 |
| 4 | 3 | 1 | | 3 | 2 |We know that there are 5 numbers in this causeway sequence because of the scroll.
Theories as to the missing numbers (with personal commentary):
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They didn't read the full scroll in Ariadne's lair and therefore the entire thing didn't show up. I think this is unlikely, as let's face it, every other scroll in the world was fine when the dungeoneers didn't even manage to unroll it the right way round
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The team should have got more help from Captain Nemanor. Again, this seems unlikely. Fair point that they didn't ask and a team didn't ask Maldame for reward a couple of series later which meant they missed out. But still, no, just doesn't fit with the 'help even when they have the wrong items' ethos of series 6. Help should have been offered or at least hinted at by Treguard.
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The team should have got the combination from Hordriss along with the spell. Well, he was at their mercy but let's face it, it wasn't suggested that they should have asked by anyone. And he didn't hint that they could get any more out of him.
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The team should have used the 'treat' spell to get the combination. Treguard specifically said that only one of the spells would help because Lord Fear had to give them a chance. I very much doubt Lord Fear would have left two helpful spells.
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They weren't meant to work it out, they just had to not panic and run across the causeway (then WHAT is the point of having puzzles at all). There must be logic behind this.
This means they must have been expected to work out the rest of the combination themselves. Having watched the spyglass sequence, nothing of value is given out there (I was honestly hoping when I re-ran through it that there would be a hint that the numbers were next to each other or that they were 'prime' or something).
Let's get the lovely diagram back here for a second.
| 1 | 3 | 4 | 2 |
| 2 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 2 |
| 1 | 4 | 2 | 3 |
| 4 | 3 | 1 | | 3 | 2 |My initial reaction was to see if it was possible to cross the causeway, in 5 steps, only on 2s and 3s. Wheras it is possible to cross on 2s and 3s:
| | | | 2 |
| | | | | 2 |
| | | 2 | 3 |
| | 3 | | | | 2 |This pattern takes 6 steps and therefore is not the one referred to in the scroll.
My next theory was that it was possible if you only stepped on a number one higher or one lower (as the successful team did).
| | | 4 | |
| | | 5 | | |
| | 4 | | |
| | 3 | | | | 2 |There is only one combination where you can do the adjacent number pattern in 5 steps (there are more if you allow the same number to be stepped on twice in a row).
There is one final possible sequence that may have been possible and that is prime numbers.
| | 3 | | |
| | | 5 | | |
| | | 2 | |
| | 3 | | | | 2 |5 steps, beginning '2, 3' and only one possible combination.
I wish Sofia had won her diploma.
I will carry on watching the episode and focussing on the seemingly unhelpful spyglass sequence for a sign of where they would pick up the clue to finish the causeway.
And until then, all feedback and extra theories welcome.
Peace out.
rachelesque x
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I've seen the video clip of this bit for the winning team, and I heard one of the advisors say in the background 'that had better be a 6 behind him' - I think they could see the 2, 3, 4, 5 but not the final number (which was a 4). And somebody said 'Basically we missed out on something and got it right by a complete guess'. A bit of a fluke there, it seems.
On a similar note, I was wondering if any similar fluke like the above would ever be allowed if the team had failed to get the relevant information? Logically, one would think so, but the details about winning and losing status suggest otherwise. What does everybody think about this? Does anybody know an example of a similar fluke?
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well it's possible the beat the causeway with the correct codes, yes guess work, even if they were on a losing quest, the correct path isn't going to fall, I'm sure the clock would have been put forward.
I don't think they did anything wrong, i think it was meant to be guess work, much like the 'find' and 'path'
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well thats true because the correct path always falls in the end anyway, and doesn't matter what path you take as long as you are on step ahead of the clock.
but that's so silly (if it's true, not you or your opinions). the dungeoneers, using that logic, could just run straight forward and survive. i really don't want that to be the case.
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yeah with said that before... 'just run for it' lol
But i there has to be a 'correct' puzzle code.
there arn't that many puzzles that the teams could jsut run for, but i guess in this situation the correct path would be the last to fall, so to start safe keeping to the path is the best way, but there doesn't seem to be anything stoping them just just going for it.
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ithink it was a kind of let them pannicvk a bit and guess it was the great causway and a bit of tension is always good!!!
thouight it was very< unfair fro Sophi she had no ebergy and no causeay code so how can u be quick and get food at the same time not afair chance!!!
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That had me in stitches... Pickle exclaims "Elf Boots" at the "Growing ring", and when the advisor repeats it Pickle gives her a look like "Where the hell did that come from?!?"
Good episode, though. Excellent for this stage of Knightmare, but only good if you consider all the series.
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And what's with Lord Fear sat on a rock wearing tights? You'd never catch Mogdred cross-dressing, or being so easily overcome!
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This quest had plenty of enjoyable moments. And I agree that because of their superlative teamwork skills, this team deserved to do well. However, I think they were very lucky to become winners. Note: These are just my opinions - I'm not looking for argument or trying to rile anyone. My criticisms are not of the team, but of what was thrown at them:
- Free ride on Smirkenorff
Granted, this wasn't the only team to get a free dragon ride; but as they approach Smirky, Treguard makes a speech about needing a fare, only for Smirky not to demand one. I find that a bit jarring. To me, it would have been fairer if the team had been obliged to persuade Smirky that the horn was a worthy fare, just as many teams before them had had to do in similar situations (e.g. Dickon's team persuading Fatilla to take the horn in Series 4). But as it was, Ben was still clutching the horn as he walked off Smirky's back.
- No Level 2 clue object choice
I found this so astonishing I had to check the episode twice: there were only two clue items on offer in the Level 2 clue area. The phrase 'walk in the park' comes to mind. When you consider that Team 2's quest failed because they didn't take the correct Level 2 clue item (the witch amber), it looks very unfair.
- BACKFIRE let-off
When the team encountered Peggatty and her aerial assault, one of the advisors began to spellcast BACKFIRE. "Spellcasting: B," he says, before Pickle interrupts and tells them just to get Ben to the exit. (The scene looks edited too.) Moments later and Greystagg is advising Ben to discard the destructive spell. I accept that if the team had cast BACKFIRE and destroyed their dungeoneer on the spot, then it would have gone down in history as one of Knightmare's most unfair deaths; but the way things were, it seems pointless to me that the spell was ever included in the quest in the first place.
- Ariadne
From where I'm standing (or, rather, was sitting), Ariadne got Ben. However, just as with near misses in the Corridor of Blades, maybe it was the production staff's call, and if so, I hope they judged fairly. Plus, the pattern with Ariadne encounters seems to be that it's not lack of swiftness that dooms a dungeoneer, but lack of defence (e.g. the Series 4 team that died in Ariadne's Lair didn't have the hibernation spell, but all the S4 teams that survived Ariadne had a spell or help from a character); in which case, Ben was never in any real danger of being caught by Ariadne. The challenge was, I presume, for the team to hold their nerve long enough for the scroll-reading as well as the astrolabe-collecting.
- TRICK or TREAT hint from Treguard
Treguard's advice that the team should consider not simply Lord Fear, nor simply Lord Fear's sense of humour, but Lord Fear's "so-called sense of humour", made the TRICK or TREAT riddle a lot easier to solve. (If only Team 1 of Series 4 had received help like that with their TRANSFORMATION and BUT predicament.)
- No Corridor of Blades
Although it sounds cynical, one could argue that in Series 5 and 6, the CoB was only 'given' to teams who were already in 'losing status'. The lack of the CoB in this quest seems to support that. Either way, it would have been a welcome addition, and I think the team would have managed it well.
- Only one Level 3 clue object needed
In my opinion, taking the gold from the Level 3 clue room was an obvious choice, and then it turned out that they didn't need their second object (the mace) anyway. It is true that other winning teams got through Level 3 without needing two clue room items (see Series 4 & 5), but in this case, the team had it easy on all three levels where clue object choices were concerned. To me, that seems uncomfortably unfair.
I feel I should draw some sort of conclusion. It could be said that Knightmare was made for children to enjoy, and not for twentysomethings to scrutinise; and although I've just done the latter, I did enjoy Ben's quest at the time, so maybe my criticisms don't much matter. Nevertheless, I now look at the quest and wish that it had been more challenging, so a team of that calibre could have been tested more than they were.
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agree with your comments, and the last one is very correct.
Watching nightmare as a kid these things never enter the mind at all.
Certianly season 6 is more drama play then game playing and you right about the backfire event really the team should have died there.
The 3rd causeway they had it easy in (a) time limit not starting till after they picked up food, (team after didnt have this luxury) and (b) on the path part of the causeway the blocks dropping were slower then usual although I checked and if they fell at normal speed the team were still fast enough.
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my points.
1 - ben team guessed 4 and 5 correctly but then had no clue what was next and if you watch it they did indeed just walk fast forward bypassing the 5th step, they were not penalised for it. Either because they dashed voer the right block or simply because it was allowed.
2 - sofia team shouldnt have ran out of energy she got the food but was killed off when the energy didnt recharge, she did have it much harder as the time limit kicked in right away unlike with ben they were allowed to get the food first.
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My verdicts on the three causeway deaths in Series 6:
Matt (Team 1)
I thought they were very unlucky to get killed off the way they did. Up until then, they had done everything else in their quest spot on. Not only that, but Matt was one of the best dungeoneers ever in the entire programme. To be perfectly honest, they were killed off just because the tiniest part of Matt's feet was barely an inch off the causeway itself, and the production team seemed to think this was good enough cause to kill them off, which I just have to disagree with. If they were allowed to complete the causeway like they should have done, I'm sure Level 3 would have beckoned straight afterwards.
Alan (Team 3)
This team's death was fair. They had learnt how to cross the causeway as a result of spying on Lord Fear, but when it came to the causeway itself, the advisors hesitated for far too long and hence were fairly killed off at the beginning. Still, it enabled advisor Jim to provide one of my favourite quotes of the series in the guise of "We're dead Alan!" Just one thought, if the team had successfully got across, how would have Skarkill and his goblins caught up with them, since they were also lurking in the dwarf tunnels beforehand, surely they would have had to get across the causeway as well?
Sophia (Team 6)
I know this might spark off some dabate, but in my opinion Sophia's team were fairly killed off. You will remember from earlier on that they were too hesiatant on Hordriss' question in the Level 3 Examination. As a result, they failed to obtain the scroll (read "diploma") that would have provided them with the combination to get across the causeway. I think the food on the causeway itself just provided an obstrcution and time delay, whilst they were busy picking up the food it enabled the Frightknight timer to complete its round and successfully knock some blocks into the abyss, one of which Sophia was standing on.
As for Ben's winning team, you will remember that only half of the causeway combination was given. Up until the causeway itself, they had done everything right so it was fair to assume they would need to do some detective work in order to get across. As the scroll read 2, 3, ?, ?, ? they assumed that each hexagon would increase by 1 figure in order to get across, however, the fact they got across by crossing 2, 3, 4, 5, 4 meant that either the combination could have allowed for the figures to decrease by one as well as increase, or the fact that the Frightknight timer was too slow to catch up with them. I think that as they reached the second half where the next Frightknight timer awaited them the line where they had to uncover "FIND" was a line of safety against the first Frightknight timer. As a result they breezed through the second half and ended up as eventual (and deserved) winners.
I hope that provides some discussion from my angle.
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