Series 6 Ep 11
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My verdicts on the three causeway deaths in Series 6:
Matt (Team 1)
I thought they were very unlucky to get killed off the way they did. Up until then, they had done everything else in their quest spot on. Not only that, but Matt was one of the best dungeoneers ever in the entire programme. To be perfectly honest, they were killed off just because the tiniest part of Matt's feet was barely an inch off the causeway itself, and the production team seemed to think this was good enough cause to kill them off, which I just have to disagree with. If they were allowed to complete the causeway like they should have done, I'm sure Level 3 would have beckoned straight afterwards.
Alan (Team 3)
This team's death was fair. They had learnt how to cross the causeway as a result of spying on Lord Fear, but when it came to the causeway itself, the advisors hesitated for far too long and hence were fairly killed off at the beginning. Still, it enabled advisor Jim to provide one of my favourite quotes of the series in the guise of "We're dead Alan!" Just one thought, if the team had successfully got across, how would have Skarkill and his goblins caught up with them, since they were also lurking in the dwarf tunnels beforehand, surely they would have had to get across the causeway as well?
Sophia (Team 6)
I know this might spark off some dabate, but in my opinion Sophia's team were fairly killed off. You will remember from earlier on that they were too hesiatant on Hordriss' question in the Level 3 Examination. As a result, they failed to obtain the scroll (read "diploma") that would have provided them with the combination to get across the causeway. I think the food on the causeway itself just provided an obstrcution and time delay, whilst they were busy picking up the food it enabled the Frightknight timer to complete its round and successfully knock some blocks into the abyss, one of which Sophia was standing on.
As for Ben's winning team, you will remember that only half of the causeway combination was given. Up until the causeway itself, they had done everything right so it was fair to assume they would need to do some detective work in order to get across. As the scroll read 2, 3, ?, ?, ? they assumed that each hexagon would increase by 1 figure in order to get across, however, the fact they got across by crossing 2, 3, 4, 5, 4 meant that either the combination could have allowed for the figures to decrease by one as well as increase, or the fact that the Frightknight timer was too slow to catch up with them. I think that as they reached the second half where the next Frightknight timer awaited them the line where they had to uncover "FIND" was a line of safety against the first Frightknight timer. As a result they breezed through the second half and ended up as eventual (and deserved) winners.
I hope that provides some discussion from my angle.
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I totally agree with you about Sofia, JamesA - it was the fact that she didn't have the scroll clue that set up her whole losing situation on the Great Causeway. If she had won her diploma, everything would have been different; more like Ben's situation, where he did have the scroll clue.
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Though Ben and his team did not have to possess any general knowledge in order to earn it...
Of all the teams that ultimately perished due to not knowing the answer to a question, Sofia's is the team with which I have the least sympathy, because I would have expected any Knightmare contestant to know about alchemy. Having said that, the raise-your-hand entrance examination set-up was unusual and potentially confusing; and overall, I did want the team to win.
I can't help thinking that Sofia's team was 'given' the Corridor of Blades because they were already in 'losing status' (cf. Teams 3 and 8 of Series 5). Had it killed them, maybe Treguard would have implied that the diploma would have got them through it, rather than saying that the diploma would have helped them with another obstacle that they didn't even reach.
One more point, since I'm already off topic... I find it odd how Sofia's Level 3 had no definite location, whereas Ben's did (the Mines of Gore). It makes Ben's quest seem somehow more... predestined (and I've discussed elsewhere how easy their quest was throughout, in my opinion).
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I totally agree with you about Sofia, JamesA - it was the fact that she didn't have the scroll clue that set up her whole losing situation on the Great Causeway. If she had won her diploma, everything would have been different; more like Ben's situation, where he did have the scroll clue.
So in your view if a mistake is made earlier they should change the design of a room to force a death?
Because no matter how you look at it the facts remain, she picked up the food and it didnt recharge her energy and bens team the timer didnt start until he picked up the food whilst with sophia it started right away.
You ignored these 2 points, having a scroll should not have changed this.
You also forget bens team were given the scroll free.
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I've already said in a different post, I agree with you that Sofia's death was unfair. She had to work much harder to get the scroll with the combination (hence she didn't get it) and then was given no chance to have a go at the causeway anyway. However, even though Ben's quest was a lot easier, the fact is that Ben had done what he needed to do to see the scroll, and Sofia hadn't. I'm not saying this is fair - it isn't. Ben had a much easier ride through the whole quest, and Sofia's was very hard. But I do understand why they killed Sofia - she had made one mistake in level 3, and that was enough. Compare this to Ben, and it seems unfair, just like many other deaths. But I can see why, in the eyes of the production team, Sofia's death was justified.
A lot of the winners seemed to have an easy ride. Think of Dickon, who didn't have to earn any magic to deal with Ariadne or face the Block and Tackle, challenges which had killed the last 3 teams between them, and killed the next one too. Of course, if no one had ever won Knightmare, people probably wouldn't have wanted to go on it, as they wouldn't have thought they had any chance of winning. That's why they made absolutely sure they had a winner in series 2 - they tried to help Chris through, but he fluffed by not taking the magic shield, so then they helped Mark through, and he won. Dickon was helped quite severely to become the first champion in 2 years - they should have let Helen win if they were going to do that! The first Ben didn't have any help, really, but as we know, the second did. Julie and Barry were pretty much all on their own merits, but as for Dunston... presumably you're of the mind that the Short Cut was completely unfair, chrysalis, seeing as you're interested in Knightmare's unfairness? Utterly awful way to end the programme, that Short Cut. Now, who's going to disagree with that?
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cant comment on dunstan yet havent watched it recently. when I say unfair I mean the manner in how she was killed.
If they deliberatly gave her a hard room and she failed it I would see that as fairer then ignoring food she picked up because thats what they did, she picked up the food and it was ignored.
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Yes, that did always strike me as rather odd. Sofia clearly put the food in her knapsack, but the skeleton just crumpled up, whereas with someone like Barry when he was supposed to stand under the water, it survived without its helmet for ages. Just goes to show how they put the life force clocks in later, and so they really had absolutely nothing to do with what actually happened.
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Hey. Well, I think part of this goes along with the 'unfairness' debate. Referring to the initial diagram of Great Causeway possibilities, I always thought [read: only ever saw one possibility] that it was consecutive numbers. It says nothing about the build up to that point in various quests.
I think James' breakdowns are very good. Given the nature of this thread, I'll keep my useless two-penneth-worth to those quests. As has been mentioned, they fulfilled their requirements to be able to progress. The peril was still there for Ariadne's lair, and they did move very swiftly in that room. I agree with David, however, that Ben's S6 quest, like Ben's of Season 5 [Winteria], and Julie's of Season 7 [Arken], had a more specified nature to it, and there was seemingly more of a prerogative for it to continue.
I suppose what defines Ben's team's effort: their directional ways handled the causeways better than any other team in that season; they improved with time; and most of all, when they got stuck on that causeway, they kept on going under pressure rather than standing still. Made their own luck with a bit of common sense.
Sofia's team were unfortunate. It would have been interesting if they had blown it in the chamber with Elita and Skarkill - but as was fairly typical throughout the years, if someone did not fulfill their synopsis criteria, so to speak, there was little mercy, especially in level 3. When the timer activated wasn't really going to be a factor - they did not have a way to go. The adversity of the graphic - them collecting food and the skeleton collapsing, worked so well. Blimey, Knightmare is such a science, is it not?
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I love this episode; the tension is great. The mines of gore are so dark and creepy complete with the background music. I liked the themeing of this level 3, it all flowed nicely and again kept the tension up. I was slightly confused by LF appearing in his tights! Not very uber-baddie I think you'll agree... This is a brilliant final encounter, LF's character just makes it.
Part of the reason I love S6 is we get to see the reactions of the advisers more. This team were great for that and because we saw that it's always made me feel more for the teams so I care if they win or loose.
The causeway debate; I think given the team had no clues other than the 2,3,?,?,? they must have been given the benefit of the doubt provided they tried to find a sensible path. I think the prime numbers sequence should have been the correct one but they should have been given a hint about it somewhere along the way (but then I'm not sure how well I'd do at remembering prime numbers under stress!).
This quest wasn't the dungeon in it's harshest form but the team were good and tackled what was thrown at them well (once they'd got past the hall of choice anyway )
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Loved this particular quest, but I wonder what on earth the second L2 clue object was for? Would the mace have had some magical property to reveal the correct causeway path on L3? Nevertheless, I always enjoyed the ship elements, and o' course, the level three mines were visually stunning.
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Ben's team deserved to win.
Ok they got lucky with the clue objects in level one, and perhaps weren't the most charismatic of teams, but the way in which they dealt with the causeways, especially the Great Causeway of Level 3, was epic!
They generally interacted with other characters in the game very well too, and didn't panic under pressure.
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Sophia's team. Very intelligent. I like the way they move with such coordination. Clare is especially bright. I think they are one of the more memorable teams from series 6.
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I see there have been many theories as to the secret of the Great Causeway. I'm quite certain that the combination refers to the number of hexagonal tiles in each row:
Choice of 2 blocks - step on the 2
Choice of 3 blocks - step on the 3
Choice of 4 blocks - step on the 4
Choice of 5* blocks - step on the 5
Choice of 4 blocks - step on the 4
*(This is the only Causeway to include a 5-block row, I believe. The unusual shape of it seems to be the key to its solution.)
Pretty simple once you've cracked it, eh?! Given the clue "2, 3, ?, ?, ?", they were evidently supposed to notice the pattern and figure out the rest for themselves. I think Tim must have thought it was fairly obvious, when in fact it's - to borrow a phrase from His Lordship - "devilish obscure"! I didn't spot the connection until I'd watched it numerous times, so heaven knows how the team were supposed to work it out under that sort of pressure. They survive because they do, in fact, step on the correct tiles through "sheer blind luck", just running forward in a panic - I wonder if Lord Fear's speech was modified to reflect this! (He's not merely being dismissive of the team; it's actually true.)
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My assumption was that there was a second scroll or clue giving the second half of the sequence. The problem with relying on the team to determine the sequence given the first two numbers is that two data points do not provide a correlation.
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I just re-watched this episode (watching one episode of S3 every lunchtime as my midday entertainment!) and I can't see anywhere in the quest where they could have feasibly got a second part of the code. They picked up 2,3,?,?,? in Ariadne's lair, after which they returned immediately to the Cloudwalker and transported to Gore by Nemanor. There's no way at all, unless Hordriss could have given them the second half to the code, but why would he know it, especially after imparting magic?
The sequence they took did seem to make sense; 2, 3, 4, 5... but there was no 6, so they just decided upon "Run", which worked as they were well ahead of the falling blocks in any case. They were much more controlled on the second half of the Causeway, well ahead of the Frightknight's sword and a good deserved victory.
After watching this again I'm convinved that Ben's team is perhaps the strongest team ever to have entered the Dungeon. They had a slightly shaky start, but soon proved to have an excellent dynamic, making smart decisions without being too slow or too fast to do so, with decisions made by the team working together. Ben was a convincingly charismatic dungeoneer who was good with his feet and quick to react, and the guiding was excellent, especially with floor puzzles with instructions like 'inch' and 'pace' (which Illusion points out on the teams page). They didn't have a particularly tough ride, but then again, their challenge was almost exactly as difficult as everyone else in series 6, with some very difficult bits to it (Ariadne was terrifying, even though she probably wouldn't have killed him, and three causeways - not easy by any means). And Series 6 was a difficult series, in my opinion - one of the most challenging of the Lord Fear era.
So I think, all in all, an excellent example of a team, a good way to show how the game should be played, with a suitably dramatic end to the quest with the frantic dash through the tunnels, and a well-deserved win, which they clearly worked extremely hard to attain. Good thing it paid off so well.
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But as I say, two points does not a correlation make.
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I see there have been many theories as to the secret of the Great Causeway. I'm quite certain that the combination refers to the number of hexagonal tiles in each row:
Choice of 2 blocks - step on the 2
Choice of 3 blocks - step on the 3
Choice of 4 blocks - step on the 4
Choice of 5* blocks - step on the 5
Choice of 4 blocks - step on the 4
*(This is the only Causeway to include a 5-block row, I believe. The unusual shape of it seems to be the key to its solution.)
Thread necromancy (and poster necromancy), but can I just say this is the most plausible explanation and you may have just solved a question that has been bugging me for 20 years or so
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"And such an ordinary crown, when you finally get to see it and hold it." Treguard seems to have forgotten he already saw it two years ago when Dickon redeemed it!
Just after we see Lord Fear trapped in his pool, does Pickle really say "Life force is getting critical, bastard"? Sure sounds like it!
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