Online episodes
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Yes I think it Knightmare could work online. Like Alan said you would need a lot of paying subscribers but I believe the audience is there. Of course I would prefer to see Knightmare on TV where it belongs but the online option would be the next best thing.
I don't believe the audience is there... yet.
As of right now, the Geek Week episode has been viewed just over 400,000 times in ten days. If we consider that we don't know how many of these views were simply partial, or how many were repeated views by fans or people who enjoyed it, it's clear we're still a long way from 1,000,000 proven avid Knightmare fans willing to pay for access to the series right now, especially since access to the YouTube episode is completely free for everybody.
Knightmare definitely has the potential to gain in popularity by reaching out to a worldwide audience, but we need an actual television program in order to do that. Within a season or two, and depending on how many countries the show can be exported to, Knightmare should have little difficulty in gaining a large enough installed fan-base to ensure the success of such an online venture.
The question then becomes, if we already have a Knightmare television series, what is to be gained by moving it over to YouTube or other streaming service?
If Knightmare is being televised, the broadcaster's own catch-up or on-demand streaming service would cover the online-access feature. The only real benefit would be that in the event the series is once again cancelled, online would always be a possibility and the show could simply relocate at that point with it's fan-base intact.
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I didn't consider an internet only KM when I wrote my 'revisited' article but I'm not sure the market/technology is mature enough to support it. That said, KM was always at the cutting edge...
Knightmare being on the cutting edge back in the day is a well established fact, yet I don't see it as being the reason why it was so popular. Being cutting edge was enough to grab people's attention and generate media attention, but it was the entertainment value of the show itself that sustained the audience if managed to attract.
That was in the days before widespread online access. Even if Knightmare is no longer cutting edge, if it's a good enough show (which we all know it's capable of being) it will still generate a sizable audience of new fans who spread word of the joy via the magic of social networking and the internet.
Being "cutting edge" was a string to Knightmare's bow, but it wasn't the bow itself. We have Tim Child, Hugo Myatt, Mark Knight and all the other brilliant individuals involved to thank for that, not just the processing power of a computer
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I wasn't suggesting that being cutting edge was the reason KM was popular (though it helped it stand out) but rather that Tim Child, who has been described as an innovator (by Dave Morris, possibly others), probably wouldn't shy away from a new method of distribution even if unproven.
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I wasn't suggesting that being cutting edge was the reason KM was popular (though it helped it stand out) but rather that Tim Child, who has been described as an innovator (by Dave Morris, possibly others), probably wouldn't shy away from a new method of distribution even if unproven.
Seems I misunderstood the gist of your post after the point you said "cutting edge". You're absolutely right there - though now you mention it I'd say mere online streaming might not quite be innovative enough for Knightmare, even though it would be nice. I wonder if an innovative and new way of using the internet in new Knightmare episodes can be found - but if anyone can do it, Tim Child can
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Downloading isn't really an option for us, it would take at least an hour if connection is ok.
And most shows on tv are online anyway, so why not broadcast it on tv and have a catch up function? pretty much every channel does it, and you can watch live tv via the net anyway.
Another fear is it being picked up by a sky channel, don't have sky.
There is a possibility the bbc picking it up I guess, and giving it a prime time slot on a Friday evening or something? For the bbc it would be a cheap show and license fee put to good use. lol plus out of all the online streaming serves iplayer works the best.. in the middle of the night at least
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I don't think it's a cheap show for the BBC either.
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[Some posts that added nothing to this discussion have been deleted and taken offline]
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Given that the BBC has an annual income if £3.5 billion from the licence fee it is stating the obvious to say it could afford to produce KM if it didn't produce other things. But let's not lose sight of the fact that the BBC is a public service and what it chooses to produce is based on an extremely complicated range of factors designed to ensure value for money for the licence fee payer is maximised. Each slot on each channel is carefully planned to reach particular age groups, socio-economic groups etc. It has to balance each of its three core purposes of entertaining, educating and informing. Making a profit is not a consideration.
Thinking about a BBC KM, we should think about similar shows which target similar audiences. I've said before that the BBC One Sat night fantasy, family slot might work - think Dr Who. Merlin...
These are v expensive shows however and are co funded by the BBCs commercial arm. BBC Worldwide is prepared to invest in such productions because they make a lot of money overseas, especially in America.
KM could be such a brand with the right support but, frankly, its a long shot.
But just because the BBC has cash don't assume it fan spend money on whatever it likes - it is subject to a robust regulatory framework and strict public service targets/objectives.
For what its worth I personally think KM, being a cerebral show with family appeal, could fit into that framework somewhere.
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Given that the BBC has an annual income if £3.5 billion from the licence fee it is stating the obvious to say it could afford to produce KM if it didn't produce other things. But let's not lose sight of the fact that the BBC is a public service and what it chooses to produce is based on an extremely complicated range of factors designed to ensure value for money for the licence fee payer is maximised. Each slot on each channel is carefully planned to reach particular age groups, socio-economic groups etc. It has to balance each of its three core purposes of entertaining, educating and informing. Making a profit is not a consideration.
Thinking about a BBC KM, we should think about similar shows which target similar audiences. I've said before that the BBC One Sat night fantasy, family slot might work - think Dr Who. Merlin...
These are v expensive shows however and are co funded by the BBCs commercial arm. BBC Worldwide is prepared to invest in such productions because they make a lot of money overseas, especially in America.
KM could be such a brand with the right support but, frankly, its a long shot.
But just because the BBC has cash don't assume it fan spend money on whatever it likes - it is subject to a robust regulatory framework and strict public service targets/objectives.
For what its worth I personally think KM, being a cerebral show with family appeal, could fit into that framework somewhere.
Nice summary, as always, Mr HobGoblin
I'd be inclined to agree that the "BBC One Sat night fantasy, family slot" as you've called it, might work. The only thing I'd note is that the shows that usually occupy this slot would appear to be pure dramatisations versus the gameshow/dramatisation hybrid that is Knightmare. Additionally, do you think that Knightmare lends itself to overseas sales? Personally, I'm struggling to see the US networks accepting a UK gameshow showing British people. Furthermore, would Knightmare survive dubbing in the same way that, e.g. Merlin might?
I'm sure there's an article in there somewhere
Oh! Oh! Someone should try dubbing Chevalier!
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I'd be inclined to agree that the "BBC One Sat night fantasy, family slot" as you've called it, might work. The only thing I'd note is that the shows that usually occupy this slot would appear to be pure dramatisations versus the gameshow/dramatisation hybrid that is Knightmare.
Mind you, gameshows and quizzes of various kinds are also a major element of BBC1's Saturday evening schedule, so a programme that appeals to the gameshow audience AND the fantasy audience could sit fairly comfortably there...
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Yes, very true.
Maybe it would even pull in more audiences than any single one type of show would? Hard to say since, I don't believe there's anything quite like the hybrid of Knightmare except other Tim Child shows
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But it depends on how much it would cost to produce, I would guess it's cost is cheaper then Merlin or Doctor who. For a 'game show' it's expensive but then it's so much more than a game show.
It's certainly not out of the realms of possibility, . As I said before on post that's been deleted, Tim had worked with the bbc in the past Time Busters was on bbc 2 so they might be quite interested in being part of a Knightmare revival.
I thought id just bring it up for discussing.
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Mystara wrote:
I'm struggling to see the US networks accepting a UK gameshow showing British people.
I agree - US networks do tend to license formats and remake them rather than simply buy the rights to existing series. Still, even that could potentially bankroll a UK version (like 'Dancing with the Stars' is an overseas version of Strictly - over 40 versions exist, all pumping some money back into BBC Worldwide).
Also, without wishing to generalise, it seems the US has a weakness for 'British' style medieval fantasy (some might say due to the fact that the US has no history of its own. Not me of course.)
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LOL
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gameshows and quizzes of various kinds are also a major element of BBC1's Saturday evening schedule, so a programme that appeals to the gameshow audience AND the fantasy audience could sit fairly comfortably there
Saturday night gameshow slot...? I'm suddenly getting disturbing images in my head of KM as the National Lottery supplement, with Treguard handing us over to the Lottery HQ, Dale Winton-style, after every second chamber.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mind you, I have no doubt whatever that the Lottery folks could afford it.
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gameshows and quizzes of various kinds are also a major element of BBC1's Saturday evening schedule, so a programme that appeals to the gameshow audience AND the fantasy audience could sit fairly comfortably there
Saturday night gameshow slot...? I'm suddenly getting disturbing images in my head of KM as the National Lottery supplement, with Treguard handing us over to the Lottery HQ, Dale Winton-style, after every second chamber.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mind you, I have no doubt whatever that the Lottery folks could afford it.
Ha! It would be a bit random but I would love to see that!
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Am I the only one terrified of the prospect of the BBC getting Knightmare?
They're large and powerful, especially with the Worldwide arm (which would certainly provide easy worldwide marketing opportunities, as well as DVD releases), but I fear the BBC would try to slowly seize control over the show itself and heavily influence it's content. A BBC-ised Knightmare, to me, simply wouldn't be Knightmare.
Knightmare has always been a product of ITV, so of course they should have first priority to broadcast a new series, but Challenge has been very kind to the show in giving the original series a platform. I'm wary of Channel 4 and 5, but they are similar enough in nature to ITV for the Knightmare format to fit right.
I just don't want the BBC Director General (or anyone else 'high-up') trying to buy the series flat-out or giving direct orders to the production team concerning length, content or anything else. There's no need to sanitize the show. I've no idea whether there's truly any danger of this, but I am fearful.
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You could say that about a commercial channel as well though. I don't like the idea of advertisers potentially interfering in production either, which could happen too. In the end, any channel that broadcasts the show is the 'customer' of the production team, and so any channel has the potential to interfere.
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