Series 7 - Episode 10
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Does anyone think that this quest was distinctly more difficult than others in series 7, largely because they were older? I had trouble following the clues and plot myself - I certainly didn't tag on to what the team should have done in the stool room. This team definitely had the hardest job - a VERY tense quest.
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Quest 5 of Series 7 was recently raised in the 'quests u did not understand' thread.
Series 7, Quest 5 (Ben): not only can I not conjure what on Earth the spell they were collecting might be, other than perhaps the name of the troll, but would they then have had to cast it during the Trial by Spikes when the troll appears? How could it possibly help other than making the thing disappear or invisible?
Earlier in the series when Nicola's 'losing status' caught up with her, i.e. when she found herself in a dark room with no Nightsight, a troll arrived behind her, as if to emphasise that she had ventured up an infamous scatological creek without paddling apparatus. (An echo of what Grimwold did to Kelly in Series 3, possibly?) The troll that came up behind Ben may have been doing the same thing; or perhaps, as Grimaldine Grimwold speculated,
the troll was just imported because they didn't have the spell they'd need in a few rooms time, so there was no point in continuing.
I've come to the opinion that the spell would have been
D-e-v-I-C-e
And its purpose:
to open a staircase/lift etc
Lissard said that the spell was required "for access to Level Three", and the descender was referred to various times during Series 7, and earlier, as "the descendant device". Since the team collected C, I, missed at least one letter then collected D, it would have been an anagram, but a fairly obvious one once all the letters had been acquired. I imagine that the team would have reached a dead end, and casting DEVICE would have revealed the descender, as Hordriss' magic did for Team 3 of Series 7.
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I personally have just watched this episode again and belive they deserved to die I mean Majida made it clear there was NO spell path hidden there/
Also they daudled through level 2 so I reckon Timj decide to kill them off.
bong
ooh naaastiiee
It was a painful oh nasty too.
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See... in the earlier series, Ben would have just got through to wherever they needed to cast it, and been stuck, thus his life force running out. Ah, how times change.
I know I'm replying to a 10+ year old post but I agree with this.
It's one thing I dislike about the latter series. I do appreciate that it saves time and allows more teams the chance to play. So that's good.
But I dislike that the reason teams die in the game isn't ***actually ***the reason why they died. If that makes sense. And quite often the reason Treguard gives the team (and thus the viewer) isn't the real reason.
Once a team makes a wrong decision (e.g. taking incorrect clue items, failure to get a spell from a character, whatever) they'll simply be killed off in the next room rather than allow events to play out and be killed by the mistake they actually made.
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Once a team makes a wrong decision (e.g. taking incorrect clue items, failure to get a spell from a character, whatever) they'll simply be killed off in the next room rather than allow events to play out and be killed by the mistake they actually made.
That's true.
I remember Tim talking at some points about what makes for good TV. The stuck life force deaths in the earlier series could be seen as more deserving of illustrating what the teams did wrong, but I always found them a bit dull.
There's one team in Series 2 - can't recall which - who wandered in the wrong direction and ended up in an unescapable room, at which point Mogdred appeared ("Play a while. Play forever!") and they died instantly. That's good TV, as it's slightly more exciting than just having the team die. Later series deaths are like that too - including Ben's. If he was going to die anyway, why not make it a bit more exciting for the watchers by inserting the troll graphic?
I'm wondering what she spell might have been, when we have the letters CID. If there was only one more letter, I'm guessing it might have been DICE.
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I think that's a very reasonable guess!
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Due credit to TheBrollachan, who had already suggested it earlier in the thread:
Suppose that you may have to rearrange the letters plus the missing ones to make the word/spell.
So if the missing letter was "E" then the word/spell could be:
D-I-C-E
With no theory as to what a DICE spell would have done in this situation, and little challenge for the team in solving a four-letter anagram, my money is still on DEVICE.
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DEVICE seems more likely to me also from the clues pointed out earlier.
If Tim was in a particularly (ooh) nasty mood he may have given them two virtually impossible, (*nods to knowing readers) ways into level 3 and a DECIDE spell made one doable in some way.
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and little challenge for the team in solving a four-letter anagram
Oh you mean like "P-a-t-h" and "F-i-n-d" in the great causeway of level 3 in Series 6 as the final challenge before the quest object room? LOL. Indeed.
With that in mind, I can easily believe it to be DICE.
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There's absolutely nothing to indicate number of letters here be it 4 or 6. There is equally nothing to suggest anything chance-like such as DICE but Lissard's plan hints much more to DEVICE.
Quote: 'one of which the kidsies need for access to level 3'
Thanks to David earlier for pointing this much more clearly than me!
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You're right; with no way of knowing if there were any more rooms following the Trial by Spikes (and, if so, how many), it's impossible to guess. My guess of DICE was based on the idea that whatever was in the room with two stools was needed to complete a spell in its entirety.
I don't think that that's what it would have done, on watching this again. Needless to say the troll was just introduced to give the team a more dramatic death, since life force running out probably wasn't really a reasonable threat in series 6. I'm not sure any spell would need to be used in the middle of a floor puzzle to get rid of a troll (unless it was DICE and the troll would have been sliced into little pieces, but that's incredibly unlikely!).
If Tim was in a particularly (ooh) nasty mood he may have given them two virtually impossible, (*nods to knowing readers) ways into level 3 and a DECIDE spell made one doable in some way.
I like that idea. David's idea of DEVICE might also work, as in: empty room, reveal the Descendor.
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and little challenge for the team in solving a four-letter anagram
Oh you mean like "P-a-t-h" and "F-i-n-d" in the great causeway of level 3 in Series 6 as the final challenge before the quest object room? LOL. Indeed.
With that in mind, I can easily believe it to be DICE.
In the case of the Great Causeway, I think the FIND & PATH anagrams were more decorative than anything else, to keep the focus on it being a navigation and speed challenge.
Although every Series 6 team would likely have faced FIND & PATH had they got far enough, I agree that that particular team, Team 5, seemed to be under-challenged (which is not unique among winning teams). Here's my previous post about that.
You could take your argument further back: all the way back to Series 1 Quest 1 Room 1, with the letters of OPEN on the floor. (Though if a simple challenge was going to be anywhere, it would be early in Level 1, and other starter challenges were simpler still.) However, I'm still not sure how closely we can compare any floor challenge with a dedicated letter collecting & rearranging challenge.
The suggestions for ACID sound plausible - an ACID spell could also have dissolved a barrier - but without a theory for what DICE would have done, it's harder to see it as a possibility here.
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I think people are misunderstanding where I'm coming from.
I'm not advocating for D-I-C-E. I'm not even saying I think it was D-I-C-E.
I'm simply pointing out that it COULD have been, and we have NO way of knowing that it wasn't.
All we can go by is what each person subjectively thinks is "likely". Most people do this by looking at what happened in other episodes/quests. But Knightmare is also full of one-offs. Teams that randomly got a super easy or super difficult challenge in a quest that is never used again. Clue tables which are ridiculously easy in one team. Clue tables with way too many objects and not enough hints in the next quest.
With that in mind, i think DICE is just as likely as anything else.
I do really like the DEVICE theory. I think it fits well. I just don't think liking something is a reason to write off other suggestions. Especially in a show with so little rhyme or reason to so many aspects of it.
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Team 5 collected the first piece of a spell, then chose the key & "darkness" powder. Not a difficult choice. The scroll stated that they should use the "darkness" and they could actually see a chest further down the undercroft, which they would probably need to open. (Traditionally it would have been Elita inside, but now it's anybody's guess.) Given the hurry-up by approaching troll footsteps.
Further down the undercroft they collected another spell letter, then unlocked the chest. It was apparently Marta's turn to be locked inside by Hands this week. She gave them the trap combo as reward. Footsteps still approaching.
Next-up was a room with no apparent purpose. This was where they went wrong. They were prompted that there should be another spell letter here. They looked around, but didn't act. As they had no spells and the only item they had was the "darkness", it seemed the obvious thing to use. Presumably it would have illuminated a spell letter. My guess is that it would have appeared on the tabletop to the left, there is a very slight obscuring of the image there. Footsteps closing-in forced them to leave without the spell letter.
They then encountered Sly Hands in an amusing scene. He was having a (first ever) day orf and was fishin' in a barrel. They took too long to realise there was a letter under his barrel and way too long to move him so they could collect it. Troll footsteps began to approach again.
Arrived at the trial by spikes. Ben moved too slowly and the troll finally arrived, obscuring their view and Ben made a wrong step. Oooh naaasty!
Team 6: Treguard seemed to have difficulty getting the helmet of justice on Julie. Not sure why, she didn't look exceptionally big or have huge hair. They're gonna need a can-opener to remove it when her quest ends.
Assigned the quest for the sword and immediately encountered Brother Strange who advised them to seek the apothecary.
Found a spyglass and learned that Raptor was gonna trap Romahna. Great description of Romahna: long legs and short temper. She then conveniently arrived, so they warned her and received some advice.
At the level 1 clue area they chose gold and catnip.
Reached Rothberry's stall and wanted to trade their gold for an "INSIGHT" potion just as the gong sounded.
Team 6 look like their quest will move along at a lively pace.
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