After a heavy night last night I think I'm about amber. Have had to have a lot of water.

Listening to this band's music reminds me of knightmare and could even have been a part of it in some way.

Anyone know of a group called Marillion?

I couldn't help but think how much some of Marillion's early music reminds me of earlier series of knightmare, not just because of the whole 80s ethos (you know that synthy sound). Some of Rothery's guitar solos could have really gone well with credits, certain scenes etc. Anyone else ever have this thought? Or any other music that could have been in knightmare.

If you don't know of Marillion, listen to the instrumentals in jigsaw and script for a jester's tear - the whole prog rock thing could have suited knightmare perfectly and vice-versa! Although the knightmare music was perfect as it was this was just a thought.

Now those would have been breathtaking eyeshield scenes. If you could just superimpose some black portals at the end of some of those pathways.

Can you imagine those guys trying that blindfolded? 'Simon, there's a huge chasm on your left. Simon, sidestep to the left.'

I wonder, if the shorter spell had been made more obvious that it was defensive, would that have made a difference to their choice? Suppose it was 'block' or 'shield'. I think 'but' was pretty cryptic and the team went for something which they felt they could apply more easily to the situation. BUT, haha , I guess then there is the issue that the choice is made far too easy.

HStorm is probably about right with the scroll idea. My idea would be to produce a paradoxical clue - say for example: 'You could transform yourself later but wait a little while first' or words to that effect. Then it's still a difficult level 3 spell choice but the emphasis on 'but', if paid attention to, would allow them to use BUT on mogdred and then choose to use transformation later on in the level .

To sum up my thoughts, I think that although they were ill fated by bad luck, they might have got the blades afterwards - and would she have been lucky to survive that, especially as it would have been their first appearance.

Treguard reminisces the days of being dungeonmaster.

*Where are those dungeon days, they seem so hard to find

I tried to reach you but you have passed your time

Whatever happened to our love?

I wish I understood

It used to be so nasty, it used to be so good

So when you're near me, dungeon can't you hear me

D-I-S-M-I-S-S

The love you gave me nothing else can save me

D-I-S-M-I-S-S

Now you're gone

How can I even try to go on?

Now you're gone

Though I try how can I carry on?

You seem so far away even though you're quite near

You made me feel alive though many children died I fear*

That's Treguard singing his own version of ABBA's SOS, DISMISS, though I appreciate it is hard to work into the song if you try and sing it (don't).

Yeah Helen S4 is a tricky one. It was not an easy choice having to choose one of those two spells and either one could have been wrong. In The Eyeshield Jake Collins writes "could it have been more luck than judgement?" as Mogdred didn't have many victims to his name. This might have been the case or it might have been 'first team syndrome' whereby first teams are given a harder time than later teams to preserve the threat of the dungeon. Well, it's a theory anyway. If the first team won, an initial audience reaction might be - 'well that was easy!!' but the dungeon dynamics could have changed to make it harder for later teams - which you never know, might have happened in a series 9, falsifying my theory completely.

To twist knightmaredave's topic and reverse the idea - how about the teams who you thought deserved to go further or win in the dungeon? Or even the teams who could have gotten further?

Spoilers below*

There are many who we feel were dealt a short straw I'm sure of that.

1. Jamie Series 2. This team were bright enough - but in a super quick series with each chamber a dangerous one they were not fast enough. I 've chosen them because they answered six out of six riddles correctly - not to be ignored when they weren't all easy riddles either. And I wouldn't have said they were that slow either. They deserved to get to level 3 I feel. They definitely got a really hard level 2 seeing it again and then got into a tangle, literally.

2. Giles Series 4. The entertainment value of this quest deserved a win alone, but to be cruelly denied victory due to time limit was a great shame. The team were not only good contestants but great sports, inquisitive minds and obviously in it for the experience. Giles and co proved you could get far in knightmare and not necessarily take it ultra seriously. And I really wanted to see that final showdown between Giles and Mogdred . Would have been epic.

3. Sophia Series 6. If knightmare was just an obstacle course, then this team might just be my first choice to complete it successfully. Their navigation of causeways was sublime (although ironically they died on the great causeway) and Sophia was refreshingly feisty. This team -but for one question- most definitely deserved that crown.

Choice 1 In series 6 I thought team 3/Alan were lucky to get as far as they did in many respects, given how starters Matt and Sumaya set the bar high with very decent level two efforts. I think Alan and chums were lucky to get to level 3 as their level two was arguably much easier than the former two quests (no causeways for a start).

I would have had them killed off much earlier in level 2 although it's a harsh thing to say as we only saw their edited experience, perhaps the production team felt otherwise. We might have heard that advisor say "you might fall off something" more frequently rather than "you're not going to fall off anything". Nonetheless, the scales of justice were tipped more evenly when Al and pals got a causeway in the early stages of the third level. And that was that.

I think I would have killed them in L2 with a challenge where you had to move your feet quickly (for example, an S6 version of the block and tackle or the other more obvious choice the great Corridor of Blades).

Choice 2 Series 5 team 3/Sarah. I wondered if this team ever watched knightmare before they came on to the show, given some of the comments that were made at times!! That's not to say the team were particularly bad, in fact, if they had not ever watched knightmare before, it was a good effort that maybe deserved level 3 status. The problem was, they weren't a team and one advisor directed everything as I remember. I think we saw a similar situation in team dynamics with Duncan's team towards the end of the series, but he was instantly killed off for the lack of team cooperation. I can't help but think had Sarah and co had the same challenge to get to level two (counting floors down the descender), they probably would have met a similar fate with the C.O.B. I have been cutting haven't I? Oooh nasty.

Another enjoyable issue! I'm thinking of taking part in that Knightmare QI - the questions are really well thought out. I think I could end up being the Alan Davies of the contest if I made an attempt though.

Anyway - on that swinging pendulum. I've always thought that in a later series that could have been so much more and used to great effect (perhaps in the controversial series 8?). In particular I think that could have been terrific in the S8 dark dwarf tunnels - similarly as with series 2 showing the dungeoneer from a side on point of view navigating across the corridor. Can you imagine if it had been one of Lord Fear's traps and he could have manipulated it to swing superfast? Oooooh nasty.

In respect of Jim Waterman's 'if my memory serves me true' part. I think his thought of two blades passing in parallel would have made the challenge of that shortcut much more interesting!

That must have taken some time Drassil ! Yes what a quest too, poor Sophia. Treguard might have said in a compassionate tone: Oooh nasty, but, who wants to live forever anyway?

I watched this episode again, as I'm going through one of my km watching phases - although I don't like to watch km too much too often as I like it to seem fresh when I come back to it!! This might only be the 3rd or 4th time I've seen this lol. I'm sure others have seen it many more times.

This team were good weren't they? The dungeoneer spoke often for herself, the team were on the ball and the navigation was very good (made some previous teams look very ordinary in that respect). I think it was unfortunate for them that their quest followed a winning quest, and equally that they got the question style pass or fail trademark of earlier series. Great effort though, and they joined the list of unsung knightmare contestants who got so close but didn't quite make it. Hmmm perhaps I should list these contestants. Anyway, my favourite teams tend to be those ones - I am very sympathetic.

I completely agree except for me I could tolerate s4-7 because the outdoor locations used real photographs of ruined castles so as a child you could still believe they were really standing there, whereas series 8 was undeniably fake even to a child, felt like they were in a computer game.

This is something I've always felt. The outdoor locations were new, completely different (and yes, were not as impressive in a visual sense as David Rowe's artwork) but they gave you a sense of excitement that the locations were places you could go to. The colour adjusting sort of gave it an unusual touch too - which was what was needed to make you feel the dungeoneer was travelling in an otherworldly place (many may disagree). I think the eyeshield sequences perhaps overemphasised the outdoorness of it all, and that along with the massive change from s1-3's great hand drawings is what has facilitated this grand debate. I think what this discussion shows is what was so great about the concept of knightmare - the 'dungeon' was never really defined or restrictive in terms of places and routes. What I currently think is, the mystery remained by the aforementioned visual changes. I'm sure if there is to be a next phase - it will be new visually, as it should be. Onward not back . And as everyone on this forum would probably agree anything KM related happening is good news not bad news. Kids need inspiring again!

Hehehe

Hordriss seems to have taken the form of Noel Edmonds.

Treguard: Aaaahh, beware team this is Edmonds the confuser, neither light or dark but distinctly grey.........

Dungeoneer: Errr, hi.

Edmonds: Hello there young one. Hang on a moment.. (Phone rings).

Two way conversation between Edmonds and the caller begins.

Edmonds: Ahh yes, hello there sir. Yes he's made in to level 2. No, not level 3 yet.

Caller: Hmmmm. I want to offer him a compromise on his quest. Either he can continue his quest for the sword of freedom or he can have a cheque for £250,000 and go home.

Edmonds: I'll let him know.

Edmonds: You have a choice young dungeoneer. Either you can take home a cheque for £250,000 or you may continue your quest for the sword. What's it to be.

Pause.

Treguard: Come on team you must make a decision.

Advisor: £250,000 is a lot of money. Let's take it.

Edmonds: £250,000 DEAL OR NO DEAL?

Dungeoneer: Deal!!!!!

Pickle: Hmmm, I'm not sure that was the right choice master!!!

Treguard: stupid elf, of course it was. Team, can I have a share of the money?

Oh no!!!!!! I thought I might have done but couldn't remember. Fascinating, that post was before my Uni days too. I think the Uni drinking has fuzzed up my memory. Well as you say it is fitting. I think I told it better this time - more suspense and more detail. Oh dear, and I even said I rediscovered him on the website which is different from what I said yesterday so one of the two posts is untrue. Still, seeing John Woodnutt's performance on the series 3 rerun (in Leo's quest???) was a certain reminder of where the dream came from . Probably worth checking through my posts if I get that deja vu feeling again

As a child from about the age of six onwards I had an odd recurring nightmare of an intimidating giant walking from the end of my street getting closer and closer until his face was up against my window glaring at me cowering in my bedroom. This was more a nightmare than a dream as I remember waking up in a bit of a sweat rushing looking at the curtains - terrified to open them in case this great big face would appear behind the window. The face was a sort of pale grey colour wearing a black hat with an evil stare whose look alone would cause me to wake up shivering! The giant face looking at me was Mogdred.

Except I didn't know that this character had entered my dreams by watching knightmare until I watched a rerun of series 3 on Challenge (I could not consciously recall any of series 1-4 on original airing as I was too young). My reaction when I saw Mogdred again aged 17 was hysterical. I wasn't really afraid of him anymore just sort of gripped and amazed. I thought I had imagined him up!!! I haven't had that nightmare for a long time. Did anyone else have a childhood knightmare that was similar????

I liked the cave sequence in the 4th series where you had the room with the icy bridge (and sometimes the brilliant mogdred) followed by the transporter pads.

I'd first like to say I have been a TES fan, and used to read previous issues and although having been away from the knightmare site for quite some time (reasons mainly because that I was no longer at Uni with quite so much free time) I enjoyed getting back to reading this one.

I think I agree somewhat about series 8 and particularly that a lot of it felt crammed towards the end. When I first watched it, however, I really enjoyed it - I was only ten after all and not thinking too much about the technicals or indeed anything other than how cool knightmare was and had always been (I think all of us remember that awful feeling when knightmare was not on the following year and for those of us still schooling, it was heartbreaking!!!! Nothing to look forward to after slogging out a day's boredom... well in my case anyway)

What I will say though is how great I thought the early part of this series was and how it remains in my memory as so. I remember being on the edge of my seat enthralled by Daniel's quest urging them on to victory when those blades zipped through and well we all know the rest. But what a quest that was and the suspense was created well with the tunnels and sound effects etc etc. I also remember that (for once) a dungeoneer (Richard) was killed off in level one - which was refreshing after all previous dungeoneers seemed to breeze through to level 2 from series 4 - 7 when they did not necessarily deserve it. And the claustrophic series 1 - 3 style was sort of revived although perhaps looking back from today I liked the painted rooms more than the CGI.

So although the end of the series sort of formed a negative shadow over the series as a whole I still think it was worth it for those early quests.

That great big giant actually sneezing over those dungeoneers (can't think of a quest from memory) in the earlier series would have been a bit of nasty way to go.

Mogdred grabbing a dungeonner with his bare hands and throwing them into a chasm would have been entertaining too but the sadism there might have been too much for kids TV.

A series of ledges appears and one could secretly be a springboard. The dungeoneer manages to land a foot on the springboard ledge. Then Treguard could say - 'well you might not get the sword but you might get the silver for that effort'

Hey fellow Kmers. It's been so long since I posted I'm hoping that I'm starting this topic in the right way and not going to cause some sort of forum chaos :o.

I remember after I created the username 123Pooka I felt silly because there was already a Pooka in the forum - and I sincerely apologise to the original Pooka for that. In another way I'm pleased that I put 123 at the front! Don't know why - it sounded quite catchy at the time.

Anyways this is my returning moment since I don't know when - 2005/6 maybe and anyone can say hi (if they want and vaguely remember me). I will hopefully be making KM contributions more frequently in the future. Actually, I watched some old series 2 the other night on video and it was great!

Really very good indeed. I think its time well spent!

Here's a km version of the classic Phil Collins 'you can't hurry love'

I need, spells

Ooh, ease my mind

And I need to find time

Someone to call mine;

Merlin said

You can’t hurry spells

No, you’ll just have to wait

He said spells don’t come easy

But it’s a game of give and take

You can’t hurry spells

No, you’ll just have to wait

Just trust in a good mage

No matter how long it takes

How many spell breaks must I stand

Before I find the spell to let me live again

Right now the only thing that keeps me hanging on

When I feel my life force, ooh, it’s almost gone

I remember merlin said

You can’t hurry spells

No you’ll just have to wait

He said spells don’t come easy

It’s a game of give and take

How long must I wait

How much more must I take

Before lack of life force

Will cause my heart, heart to break

No, I cant bear to live my life alone

I grow impatient for a spell to call my own

But when I feel that i, I can’t go on

Well these precious letters keep me hanging on

I remember merlin said

You can’t hurry spells, you’ll just have to wait

He said spells don’t come easy

Well, it’s a game of give and take

You can’t hurry spells

No, you’ll just have to wait

Just trust in a good mage

No matter how long it takes, now spellcast!