TAPE PIRACY
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A “nice to have in your collection” isn’t enough to justify an official release.
Shame really, because I’m still waiting for the unlikely Gamemaster to be released. That show was the blueprint for all videogame shows that followed, and inspired me to look at things in a wider picture and lighthearted way.
If you read the other thread in Knews discussion, you’ll see a “pirate DVD = bad / good argument”.
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I pray that this ain't gonna cause yet another long thread on the same subject as we have had several times before but may I make a request?
It's already been established that many people out there are trying to cash in on the current retro-trends by selling pirate copies of Knightmare along with a multitude of other programs. We all know where E-Bay can be found and Knightmare memoribilia (such as it is) etc can be easily tracked down through this service. Because of this, is it possible for us to stop these "AArrgh! aaarggh! Pirate DVD's!" threads here on the forum?
By all means, make your point known to Ebay and the individuals concerned (IMHO, so long as we stay polite and professional, I encourage doing this) but there is little point in this forum being filled with anti-pirate war-cries. Although the sentiment is a good one, it's telling the wrong people of what's going on!
Although this is an unofficial site, it has become (through size, longevity and hard work on the part of the webmasters) the closest we're gonna get to an official Home! Due to this, the stance is and always will be anti-pirate. Tim Child himself and members of the cast have been known to frequent this very forum and have contributed to the site on more than one occasion. It is only right that we consider the copyright that THEY hold.
The story of the NKTP 'Robin Hood' tape-traders gone overboard is now legendary and is the main reason why the majority of older users are against wholesale piracy with the tenacity of Lord F's Blockers.
Thanks for listening, this is just my £10 (should be 2p but inflation can be hellish at times...... ).
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Ok I think a bit of rearranging is required here.
Whilst I appreciate this is a hot debate at the moment, and indeed an important issue, I would like it to be kept to one thread, if possible, and therefore I shall merge the two threads so we can keep all ebayness in the same place.
Thank yous.
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I'm sure this has probably already been mentioned on here, but has anyone seen these?
http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/91/a9/b6_1_b.JPG
Does anyone own it? Or know if it's any good?
Fru x
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No idea, just someone putting a bit of effort to on the cover to hide the fact that it is an unauthorised copy and therefore illegal.
Until recently Knightmare.com was suffering from ebay sellers hotlinking to images on this site, but that's since been fixed.
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Looks quite well made.
I wouldn't bid for it though as it is a fake.
Oh I do wish an official DVD release would happen.
Just think, September 2007!
Imagine a 20th anniversary boxed set.
All the series.
Think of the extras, CITV links, Knightmare characters on CITV, outtakes and a retrospective documentary featuring interviews with cast, crew and 'brave bands of youngsters'...
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Yes, but it's still a fake and I don't know about the rest of you but I'd never buy anything unless it was official.
September 2007 would be a good date for a release, let's hope it happens!
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Just seen this on ebay
Basically someone is selling series 1-4 of knightmare. They have quite a few copies 7 at the moment, and have sold alot more as well. This is the 2nd time that I know of that the seller has offered this package.
I suggested in this forum that we could have used our collections to make a set which could be sold to the fans for a reasonable price. I got told in no uncertain terms this was illegal. However this guy is making a hell of a lot of money on knightmare £21(inc p+p) on each one sold and he can make as many of these as he likes.
Is this right? I thought I would just run it by you, i;m sure you will all be interested. No doubt if this is allowed 1 or 2 of you will even purchase one yourself, but it seems a little unfair how he is making so much money out of knightmare, when real fans would love for such a set but will no doubt be priced out of buying buy the seller.
For example I could purchase 1 for £21 to acquire the footage and simply do what hes doing. I have the right equiptment it wouldn;t take long. However I regard this as illegal and not the done thing.
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Technically, no. It is illegal, I think.
Every now and then someone sells Knightmare illegally on eBay.
Yes, if it was allowed, I would buy a copy but I wouldn't be sure until I saw on this forum (or the main site) that there had been an official release. Otherwise, wouldn't risk it.
And the others will no doubt tell you about the hotlinking.
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What he is doing is not only illegal but unscrupulous. I think eBay should be obliged to take more responsibility for activities that they are effectively supporting and endorsing through such a relative lack of supervision. I guess it's the age-old business stance - no matter how morally reprehensible an act is, you can still get away with it if it isn't technically illegal.
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I'd advise Knightmare fans to help stop illegal auctions by reporting them.
Ebay contact page: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/contact_us/_base/index.html
The auction number that's usually required for reporting auctions can be found in the top right of auction pages.
These unauthorised copies also mean that royalities towards actors and those involved in the production (eg. music) are not paid. It is also likely to affect any possibility of an official release as a decision for a release is purely commercial (ie. making money from releasing it).
At the end of the day I'm sure if there is an official release made you'll hear about it here via Tim Child and on the Knightmare home page. Until such a time it's safe to assume all sales of Knightmare episodes are unauthorised copies and therefore illegal.
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Just thought I'd give you an insight into the mind of the seller, by copy & pasting a reply...
Thank you - you are correct - I have misspelled Treguard, and the listing has been removed to reflect this.
As for the legality of the DVDs and ?defrauding? people of their royalties - I haven?t reproduced official discs that would defraud anyone.
Instead, what I am offering is a convenient way for viewers to watch the show. Just as Sky+ allows subscribers to record their shows to watch whenever they like, I am doing the same.
Until the show is released on DVD officially ? with contracts set up for the relevant people to receive royalties from DVD sales, then the sale of prerecorded material, albeit unofficially, will always be in demand. I?m simply offering a recording service and it?s up to customers if they want to buy or not. After all, Knightmare is still being shown so I?m not the only source for people to watch Knightmare.
I won?t get into an argument over the ethics of this on eBay. There are many forums on the web that can accommodate that. But I would sure be proud, if I were originally involved with the show. It?s a cult, and no amount of money can ever buy that.
Don?t worry though, as with every product, it has a life cycle. Demand will decline once it has been satisfied. Gone are the days when viewers would pay ridiculous amounts of money bidding for single discs.
Here?s a thought, have you ever wondered who are the people buying the discs? Past contestants? Actors?
Well anyhow it's one auction removed, though I suspect its removal may have been more due to a couple of reports to ebay rather than just a typo.
Another two auctions...
...the amusing thing about the first is that the seller was a hotlinker until this site took action. Now it hotlinks to significantly poorer quality pictures, hardly a gives a good impression to sellers.
In reguards to reporting, I've noticed it is more effective to report the member than the auction. By the time an auction report is read the auction may be over, whereas reporting the member allows you to list the individual auctions as well as helping to prevent further ones.
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It seems to me that as soon as one auction is taken down, another starts.
And why do people sell these things? Can't people make their own copies if they want to see KM so much?
All I can say is: I hope they hurry up and release an official DVD
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Sammy22… it seems cheeky of you that you would ask me to release the set to you for £10 and then go on about the legality of it all. I would have been more than happy to let one go for free.
DVD topics like this have been well discussed in the past and it seems pointless to go over and over what has been said and done.
However… the programme aside, I AM offering a service. Each Knightmare run lasts 6 months – equipment costs money, recording them takes time, authoring and burning takes time. Some viewers would find it more convenient to have all the episodes there so they can watch them in one go as opposed to getting up at 8am to watch them.
The feedback has been positive. Some customers have bought for their boyfriend’s; others have bought for husbands, and with every feedback makes me think archiving shows (not just Knightmare) is a worthwhile project.
ILLEGAL and ROYALTIES seems to come up a lot as an argument against the DVD trading. I haven’t reproduced anything that would hamper DVD sales – after all, how can I be harming sales of something that doesn’t exist? As for the royalties, I’m sure those involved are getting some from the Challenge reruns.
Until an official release is out, I guess your crusades to eradicate the trading seem pointless.
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knightmare4u, I would seriously advise that you read the DVD thread started by beveryafraid (aka Tim Child). You most certainly ARE reproducing something which hampers DVD sales - with readily-available pirate versions having flooded the market, any attempt at a legitimate release would be completely undermined. This means far less royalties, not just for the company but for the actors. By making and selling pirate DVDs, you are depriving them of income. This is equivalent to theft. That is why it is illegal and why you must stop what you're doing.
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I feel I must back up the comments made by Malefact above.
It would be a good idea to read what the creator of the show thinks of this kind of pratice, given his efforts to bring it to us in the first place I think it would, at the very least be reasonable to ask for his wishes to be upheld.
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…Sigh… here we go again.
An official DVD will never happen.
Granada have already made a killing by selling broadcast rights to Challenge. SO… they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they released the DVD. After all, who’s going to watch the Challenge reruns, if they already own the DVD? The ripple effect, then would be, how can Challenge make money from advertising if Knightmare is no longer popular? The bootleg DVDs aren’t hampering an official DVD release, it’s Granada. And since Tim Child was working for Anglia at the time, all IP would belong to Anglia/Granada.
The only thing left, is to ask for the understanding of the seller’s, which, with full respect, Kieran, you have done.
I archive shows (much to the annoyance of my girlfriend) as a hobby. I enjoy archiving shows that I feel will never see an official release. Cystal Maze, Fort Boyard, Gamesmaster, Bad Influence, Frank Skinner etc.
The only reason Knightmare is up for sale is because I know people still watch it. But I refuse to sit in front of my computer burning discs for everyone for free. I pay for Sky subscription, and so can other viewers. But if you want the episodes neatly presently, and edited, then you can pay for it.
I know on the surface, people think a lot of money is being made. I don’t think so. It’s TIME and effort that is being sold.
Knightmare is being rerun in January so anyone that wants to watch it, can install Sky or whatever.
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